What Every Great Leader Understands About Communication, Trust & Respect | Lisa Ghany

Behind every successful event, respected leader, and trusted organisation is something most people never see.

In this episode of The Corie Sheppard Podcast, event strategist, communications expert and protocol specialist Lisa Ghany shares the lessons she's learned from decades working in corporate communications, government, banking, crisis management and event production.

From advising Trinidad and Tobago's first female Prime Minister to helping build some of the country's most recognisable organisations, Lisa explains why preparation, respect and relationships matter far more than most people realise.

We also discuss:
• Why protocol is really about respect—not status
• What separates great leaders from everyone else
• The hidden work behind successful events
• Crisis communication in the age of social media
• Building a reputation that lasts a lifetime
• The future of event management and AI
• The story behind the Down Syndrome Family Network and why inclusion matters

Whether you're a business owner, manager, communicator, event professional or simply someone who wants to become a better leader, this conversation is full of practical lessons and timeless wisdom.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a comment, and share it with someone who would appreciate the conversation.

Follow The Corie Sheppard Podcast for more conversations that entertain, educate and honour the people shaping Caribbean culture.

Transcript

From Convent Dreams To Power Calls

SPEAKER_04 0:00

When you're in Convent and they're giving you all the careers you could choose from. Event management wasn't a career. I got a phone call from the Prime Minister asking me if I was interested in coming to work with her. First, I was shocked when I talk to the Prime Minister, you know what I mean? I felt very honored to be asked. And I also felt very honored to be able to serve the first woman prime minister of our country. And the very basis of protocol is respect. When people hear that word, they think it's only dignitaries and high-level officials and stuff. But there's protocol in every single event. We driving through this field of bush, and all I see is peppers and watermelons. And Mr. Pifi is going, this is going to be a golf course here, and this is going to be a high-end residential area. And I'm going, I'm thinking.

London Heat And What Work Looks Like

Corie 1:15

Today we have somebody who's no stranger to the corporate world, world of philanthropy, owner and founder of exceptional events, several different corporations, several different positions. Welcome to the show, Lisa Ghani. How are you doing, ma'am?

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I'm good. A little nervous. You have been nervous, Cory.

Corie 1:30

I don't know what happened to be one of these people behind the camera. We're nervous. It couldn't be. Lisa is a mako, you know, you know, come back from London and what was it?

SPEAKER_04 1:39

It was good. It was good. I was there for that hottest day. Yes. And I never want to be in London again on this hottest day.

Corie 1:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46

You know, it was the worst.

Corie 1:48

It was vacation?

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Um, well, my brother lives in the UK. My mom was, well, I was born there. I still have a lot of family still. Right. So I went across to, you know, do some sibling bonding. Oh, nice. That's always fun.

Corie 2:00

That's always fun. That hottest day is an interesting one. Like, I see in Trindad now, like I I leave home the other day. I tell my wife I still rain looking like it's set up. But is the Sahara dust on that kind of cover and it makes it warm? So in Trinidad, we've complained about the heat. But I remember going to Europe one day when um, I think Trinidad qualified and we went to the World Cup. And when I experienced that dry heat in Europe, it's it's it's unique.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, and and the whole thing with London is it's not built for heat. You know, the buildings, we have they have no air conditioning. Here we live in air conditioner, you know. We jump from the air-conditioned car to the air conditioned house to the air conditioned office, you know, and if you don't like air conditioner, you open your windows.

Corie 2:38

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

But in England, that's not the case. The buildings themselves double glazing on your windows, the hotels have no AC, you're what you're calling, and you say, Anybody AC not working, they have no AC.

Corie 2:50

It's just the way it is.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

That's just the way it is.

Corie 2:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everybody I talk to about you describes you as one of the most hard-working people they know. Oh where you're working on these

The Calm That Comes From Preparation

Corie 3:00

days? What's work like?

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Well, there's always work if you want it. You have to balance it. So um, we're working on uh the grand opening of Eclipse Eli's new um bespoke studio on Arapita Avenue tomorrow. Oh, really? Yes, tomorrow. So we're taking your time, but it's okay. This is important. Um, and you know, we always have uh some pro we have events are projects, uh, so they don't happen like overnight unless, you know, it's uh something really that wasn't planned for. So events kind of take you a couple months to produce, you know, nobody sees the back work. What they see is the actual day of. And um that is usually, as I say, you know, months of planning and preparation and reworking and you know, tweaking to get it to where um the customer is, you know, enjoying the experience.

Corie 3:56

Yeah, I guess the less you know about the background of an event as a patron, the better the planning went.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Yeah, yeah, really. Because the, you know, if if there is a mistake or something that doesn't go the way you planned it in the event, the only person that really knows is the client, unless it's a major catastrophe. You know, the the um the guest doesn't know that, okay, there's gonna be a big reveal, or it was supposed to, you know, the balloons were supposed to boast to burst at X second. Right. You know, but the client who was like, you know, you went through all of this with them and they they're excited, they are the ones who will know and you might get a post-mortem yeah after that. Yeah, or something on that one. Yeah, and there have been times when it's like, okay. Yeah.

Corie 4:40

It's funny you bring up the balloon part, right? Because I run from events.

SPEAKER_05 4:43

Yeah.

Corie 4:44

Well, maybe as a patron, so it's just too much people, but still, me planning our company. We used to do uh we represent like global brands who don't have our office here. So we used to work for like Sony, Sony Eric S Nande. And because of that, they would do brand activations. Yeah. So sometimes I eventually within an event, and um the ulcer thing, and I can't deal with that, you know. It's too much pressure. I remember one event we had organized in UE. Hazelman at the time, coincidentally, was in charge of the intake of new students. I think we call them freshers. And we had organized this event, boy. And when people reach in, we still have a ladder because we have a balloon thing to drop. So you just bring back real stress. When you from the time you say balloon is PTSD, how do you manage your stress with it?

SPEAKER_04 5:25

Um I don't know. I love doing events, and I think, you know, because I've be I have the experience now, and uh I've combined, you know, the love of it with the training and stuff, that and that when my personality brings the calm. You know, uh and and people tell me now, they say, Lisa, how are you so calm? I say, well, what you want me to do? You know, what do you want me to do? And if I start to get on like crazy and shouting and and buffing up people and thing, then that's how all the rest of the people in the team are going to start to behave. You know, so I I try to bring that calm to the event. And I think the calmness also comes from being prepared.

SPEAKER_05 6:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

You know, if you're not prepared, then you're gonna be flustered. So we have to make sure that we know what, you know, we have the right team together, we have the right vendors, um, you know, that we've taken the time to go through the risk management part of it, and that we understand what the client wants and what they expect and what the guest also expects when they come there. So it really has to do with that overall planning process that goes into the event.

Corie 6:37

Yeah, I want to get into that risk management part because that's the thing maybe I'm scared of as well from my investment standpoint, because our bunch of people who would say, you know, let me do a boat ride or events does mean parties too. So you mean effect. Yes. And I am like, I just start immediately thinking of all the things that could go wrong on that day.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

Yes.

Corie 6:55

Uh, but before I get to that, as exceptional events, you help people with conceptualization as well. So end-to-end.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

Yeah, we do end-to-end. Um, we can do anything for you, right? You if you want us to just come and do on-the-day management. Well, we don't really do on-the-day because I feel that we have to have had um prior information and be part of the planning process because we come in to advise you. You know, we are experts. And um, so you know, if something is not happening, I can't just take over something and then I stand up there and everybody say this is Lisa Ghani event. What the hell? She didn't know about this. It's a Lisa Gontrin, well, yeah. So I we're not really doing day off.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:37

But at the end of the day, the whole creative process, yes, you, you know, the client may have an idea, they have a brief, you know, this has become very sophisticated. You know, we have tenders, we have RFPs, we have all sorts of things now that we have to comply with. And we will sit, I will sit with my team, we have a small team, um, or we will bring in consultants as we need, and we'll sit down and go through and come up with the concept to match what the client thinks. And I think that's where we bring a little extra because coming from a corporate communications background and a marketing background, you know, I'm thinking ROI, I'm thinking like how the accountant is going to be thinking in the corporate business when he sees me put a uh a million dollar budget in front of him and saying where we getting for this, you know. So we have to think strategically like that as

Contracts, Safety, And Risk Management

SPEAKER_04 8:30

well.

Corie 8:30

No, see where you're getting sponsorship too, you know. There's a marriage of plenty of different words. So the risk elements, the earthquake and the thunder and the lightning on them things, and I'm sure as many other things. What do you do? Is it is it that you just factor in things like that or you accept them as they come?

SPEAKER_04 8:45

No, you have a risk management plan. I mean, those things that you just talked about, most of those are acts of God. So those are covered in your contracts. So we go to that part of it too, which again, you know, if I had to hail out my event colleagues out there, you know, get your business in order. You know, because when you come back and, you know, you say you lost a lot of money because you had to do this, did you have a proper contract? Were these things covered in your contracts? Right. And I mean, it is a learning experience. I didn't get to this point with ounce and knocks along the way and not having a contract and all that kind of thing. But now the game has, you know, the game has risen a lot over the years. And the and you're playing with a lot of factors as safety in events, um, you know, the the financial risk of the event, um, accidents. You know, we've had many accidents and events over the years that we could pull examples of that, you know, were really hard hitters for the people who were involved. So those things have kind of brought all of that. But and more so now we have to comply, you know, they're they're legislat the laws now that um require you to conform to these things. So um, you know, people have to know that. And to know that, you know, you have to have some kind of professional training. It's not like long time, I just love it. Yeah, I just love it. So I'm going to do events and no.

Corie 10:12

Well, I just I guess there's still still some of that. You see, people who just want to get into event management. It seems to be one of those fields you could get into that do have a high barrier to entry. You know, you need no set of degrees, you don't need no sort of experience. You could just say a nice Instagram page could get you there.

unknown 10:27

Yeah.

Corie 10:27

You manage an events and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

But I don't know. I don't, I mean, unless it's luck of the drawer and you're a great entrepreneur and you just have that going for you. I st I still have a little question mark in my head about sustainability of people like that when they have others, not just myself, who are really taking the time to, you know, invest in themselves in their development, in their professional development. Because I mean, there's a you can do your degree now in event management. I have my degree in event management. Um, and you can also do your certifications. So, you know, there is a professional body of knowledge for event managers. And the the the the further up the scale you want to get to, I think it would be good. You don't want to you could say somebody wake up any morning and I want to be a doctor. Of course. Right? Of course. Be good because you have a healing hand or something and you can look after a patient or whatever. But at the end of the day, you don't want to know that the doctor you go to didn't go to medical school.

Corie 11:30

100%. It's the same risk management you're talking about. Because for me, the clients that we were managing at the time, I don't know that I want to work with somebody who doesn't have a lot of experience and a lot of whether it's qualifications, but they they they do the work because it's just too risky to put it out there.

SPEAKER_04 11:45

Yeah. And I mean, I I went back to university when I was 40 to do my event management degree because I was in corporate communications. Um, the marketing part of communications, um, in some organizations, that's how it overlaps. Some is pure communications, some is marketing and communications. And I was working in a company at the time that was doing the marketing slash communications. And um communications and marketing had kind of pivoted into a very experiential type of process, right? No longer was it just send out a brochure and a flyer and a whatever. People wanted to experience the product or the service or whatever. And and all the the you know, the the science behind it was saying that's how brands become, you know, customers become more loyal, they they become part of the brand through the experience. And I love I really, really enjoyed that part of it. And um so at the time I went to my then boss and I said, Listen, uh, I really want to go and do this degree.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

And he said, Well, you know, get some information, put together a proposal, and let me see how we could work it. And um at the time, the the um Center for Events Management in the UK, which is in Leeds, was offering this four-year degree program. And because I had experience, I got people to write recommendations and stuff, and um they exempted me from three years. Oh, wow. So I actually just went in to do the final year and the thesis. And um, so that, and it was a real, it was a great learning experience because I had the practical side, I had function at a managerial level, and then you go into university with all the theory. Right. And sometimes you're sitting in a lecture and you're laughing and you're saying, oh yeah, oh yeah, really? No, that's not gonna cut it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 13:48

You say it out loud, they say it's in your mind.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

And then once or twice when, you know, you're with the professor and the and people giving feedback, I kind of couch it in nice language, you know, and I said, Well, you know, really. But um, you know, it it it did help me and I and um to as I say to lock in the process, you know, lock in that project management, understand that events are not just these simple things like you were saying that anybody gets up in the morning. And what they could do is go and put up some balloons and they could, you know, they could create the environment, maybe if they're creative and stuff like that. But really, where's the strategy? Where's the measurement of the results of the event? Did it really achieve what you set out to achieve? Because it's not only the party boats, sunny, and and things like that. You're doing marketing events that have a return on investment, you know, you're doing things that um, you know, have a strategic um outcome that is expected by the client. So are they thinking about that?

Corie 14:56

Yeah, it's an interesting one because the thing is like when we set up these things, and maybe all that is a stress for me too, because no, even you talking through it, there's a structure to it that I don't think we had. We release marketing people who being asked to do an event. And I had my best experiences when we had an event manager who I just have one point of contact where I could say, listen, you have you have this thing to execute, we know what the concept is, we know what we're working on, versus me dealing with this one who put up trusting and who could come with the banner. Like I remember time we did uh uh activation outside the stadium. This is FIFA closing off this thing eight o'clock in the morning, five, and that's starting six. You have experience with these things, right? It's a nightmare because when I reach the four o'clock in the morning, the trusted man put up at a height that the banner is at different height, and I get his men to come back. So I wonder sometimes about how important is it to have or establish what those things are ROI or what are

Logistics And Protocol As Respect

Corie 15:50

the objectives and so on.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Yeah. And all the logistics plan. And what you're talking, there's one part of the event, which is logistics, as when you're actually implementing the event. Or everything already has been planned. You know, we have a floor of function, we have a right, you know, we have a uh um documents that we will circulate with people because you know it it it is just in a way it's common sense in that okay, if you don't put up the tent, you can't put down the tables. If you don't put down the tables, then you can't put the deco on top of the tables. If uh, you know, so if if that first person does not do what they have to do any time that they have to do it, everything else is affected.

Corie 16:27

Of course. I like how you say in a way is common sense because the truth is sometimes it's fine out after they put only say, wait, the floor in?

SPEAKER_04 16:34

Yeah, and and then and then another part of what we bring to the table in our company is you know, protocol, right? And there's protocol in every single event. You know, when people hear that word, they think it's only to do with, you know, dignitaries and and high-level officials and stuff. But there's protocol in every single event. And protocol always takes the lead because that will tell you where you're gonna sit seat, Granny, who coming in first, who's gonna talk first on your program, and you don't want to come there and then everything in confusion, and back and all and the family don't know what's going on. In a funeral, I've done many high-level funerals, right? And you know, simple things like that.

Corie 17:14

Funeral is an event who don't, I suppose. Yeah, yeah. When I saw you do a master's in protocol and diplomacy, well, first I say, well, David, they'll be in the wrong place because that's not that in this room here. But I immediately think of like government type events, like diplomats and so on. But where does it make sense in terms of how you set up the events? There's that protocol exists.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

Yeah, and then and then the very basis of the protocol is respect. Just if I had to say one thing about protocol, it would be that word, respect, right? It is there to give the guest or the or the very important person, whether it be granny or or the prime minister, the respect that is due to them in that in that capacity that they're in that. And any if you invite 10 guests to your event, all 10 have been invited by you. So you it is not that they they say they want to come, you know. Even if you if they're paying to come, you have to give them the value for what they have paid for. So you can't just treat them any all how. You know what I mean?

Corie 18:24

Or you shouldn't. You shouldn't. But it's easy to end up doing that. It's easy to end up doing that.

SPEAKER_05 18:29

It is.

Corie 18:29

Every time you talk, I remember that event that I had that went all the way left, all the way around. Like our wedding, we decide, listen, we need no wedding plan and all those things. During COVID, what are you gonna do? It's only 50 people in my mind. And I forget how bad I was at organizing events. So I said, but I do events before. And it's funny, but when it was time to do the cake sticking parts, that's what you call it. Yeah. We are on knife, we we are not no the photographer now. Don't let my wife hear that part, right? The photographer knows how to run quick and borrow some things from Hilton together.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

You know what you see all the time? Somebody's going to give a toast in big functions, corporate wedding, all kinds of things, and they have no glass.

SPEAKER_05 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

You know, in their hand. They're going to give a toast, and then all of a sudden they're looking around to find somebody bring him a glass, bring him a glass. You know the room.

Corie 19:13

Oh, so you're all doing that in the background, people.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yeah, we have we have the waiter standing there with the glass. So we've made sure that when they go up to the lactoon, they have their glass in their hand. Even if they're not drinking champagne, they're drinking water, you have to have you're given a toast. So you need to have it. You're asking everybody, raise your glasses and a toast. You go in like this. You know, I've seen it so many times. They just pretend, oh, this is the elusive glass here, you know. So it's detail. That is what events are, you know. Detail.

Corie 19:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see where, of course, I could see where I call it stressful, but maybe, you know, working with somebody like yourself could make me just enjoy the event. I could tell you. I enjoy my wedding with the marriage part, right, David. Keep the scene. But boy, the wedding, I mean, we have plenty of stories. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Yeah, yeah.

Corie 20:02

It was, it was, there was a lot that you could see where somebody like you pays attention to detail can be a good one.

SPEAKER_04 20:07

And I have to say, yes, okay, I know a big part of it, but the team that you have is really, you know, it's uh you're as good as your team.

SPEAKER_05 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:17

Because I cannot do it all. I cannot be everywhere. Um, you know, I cannot oversee every element when we have a big event with 700 people going on. I have to trust my team. Sure. And I have to know that the people who are handling the bar or the food and beverage or the reservation or the security people who are the first people that people are coming into contact with haven't, you know, have they have been respectful to the people who come in.

Corie 20:42

Yeah, they said it's only the event, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Yeah, some people, oh my god, real we have real stories we can tell, eh? Can imagine real, real stories. I can imagine, I can imagine. You're making me think of all kind of things. You know, the what do you call them? Bleepers, bloopers.

Corie 20:58

Yeah, you can leave them all in. Because I guess the that's the thing about those things. That there will be eventualities no matter where this happened is uh is a moving thing. And what no matter what you put on paper in terms of that plan, there's a lot that's happening all that.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

Yeah, and you're dealing with people, humans, and person, a lot of big personalities.

Managing Egos, Teams, And New Tech

SPEAKER_04 21:19

Yeah.

Corie 21:19

How difficult is that? Because again, I've going back to all my failed events, right? One time I have a thing to do, and again, you you say team, and immediately I go back there because everything happens so fast that I forget about team. I say I had to do everything here because they were doing a sponsorship for the national team. This is Sony again, and the deal signed the morning, and then we have to do a press conference the evening.

SPEAKER_05 21:42

Yeah.

Corie 21:42

So at that point in time, I forget about team. I call up Banner Man and say, put that and we go and bounce editing. And when it's time to do the announcement, uh Sean Fuentes, who is uh the PR person of communications for TTFF at the time, he hand me a list of things to say about people. So Aston Jack Warner, the President of the and I scribble down that thing. When time for me to read that, because after I put up the banner thing, I changed my shirt quick. I host an event now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

Chaotic.

Corie 22:08

Chaos. And I reached Lincoln Phillips and I can't read by write down. And it's like, Lincoln Phillips. You just keep moving on. So how do you manage those with the high-profile people now? Is it is it a different animal when you're dealing with people with the big names and the big egos and so on?

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Yeah, it is. You know, I mean, just what you're saying there, I mean, I went through that in the early days, you know, where I was everything. You know, you're working in an organization, they didn't have event managers or event management companies. And a lot of what was going on in companies, in particular, was that the internal departments were running the show. They were doing everything, hiring the vendors, doing the plan. I used to, you know, drive when I was working in the bank, and I used to drive with a bag in the back of my car. And it had a formal dress and high heels and whatever. I would go in the branch, I'd do everything. Um, the fellas there, you know, the ball roops and the different contractors, they see me, they're missing. And then next thing, four o'clock, reach time for the event, I've gone upstairs in the bathroom, I put on the fancy dress and I slip up the hair and the makeup. And I come downstairs and the guy say, You the same lady? You the same lady who was just here. And I was like, Yeah, let's do this. And then I turn into the MC, and you know, I start like like you, and then the manager asking you something, where's this? And you're you're trying to. So, you know, we did go that through that period in the event management, if I want to call it professional timeline or building of the industry. We have gone through that. We should not be there now because there's too much information. You know, as I say, now they have academics that you could train yourself, upgrade your skills, even if you can't go to university. You could do a course, you know, at the lockdown for years. Randy George Washington University program, which I taught, lectured in for 20 years. Um, so you know, people have have done these things. There's a lot more exposure. Young people now have that this as a career option. So they don't have to choose, you know, the traditional things anymore if they're creative and so on. They can. And, you know, education and learning is a lifelong thing. I'm still learning. I'm now having to embrace AI in my events, you know, and and how even I love it when it comes to writing proposals and doing stuff, you know, because you still have to know, but it makes it faster to, and you know, we're able to react to requests quicker and stuff like that, and give people um realistic looking diagrams using AI and stuff to give them the visuals of what's show them the renders.

Corie 24:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

And then from that we go to proper renders and you know, um, to scale and all that kind of thing, because that's the level that clients are asking for. They're not, they don't want to little hand-drawn, site plan. Yeah, not again. No, no, no. So, you know, you you have to know about these things, and and you have to be constantly, as I say, and now it's so much faster that this technology is advancing so much quicker that you, you know, you have to be on your boat. So for me, I love it because it keeps me relative. If I if I didn't, and I just say, Well, oh God, I'm too old for that. I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't be able to keep up with the new people coming in. And they are good people coming in, and you know, we do a lot of collabs as well with other event companies um with Ultimate Events. They're one of our good partners. Um, you know, and again, these are boys that I've known since they started. Some of them I taught coming through GW and stuff, and now there's that mutual respect, and they will come in and say, Well, okay, we we need you for protocol, or we want you you handle the growl. You know, you we'll do the logistics, you do the admin on the floor, you know, that kind of thing. And and it's great to collaborate with with other people in the industry.

Corie 26:08

Makes sense, it makes sense. And I never understood that, huh? Like I would see promoters, for instance, collaborate on an event. The one that comes to mind is the RB brunch recently, where I would see is air committee and scorch and this one and that one. But now they I guess it's splitting up our responsibilities.

SPEAKER_04 26:21

Yeah, and then I suppose promotions to me are a lot. Well, I am I am I more my events are more hosted events, right? So they come with a budget, they're not really income, direct income generation. We're not selling a ticket. Um, but you know, when you come to promoters, you know, they're in a different uh in a different era because their baseline, their their profitability is based on selling tickets and merch and whatever and the bar and all that kind of thing. So, you know, the approach to that type of event is a little more risky. And in many cases, you know, bringing in um maybe other promoters that uh that have the market, have that target market, helps them to sell the tickets. So it's a kind of split shared risk, share and shared profit. Makes sense.

Banking Roots And Learning People Skills

Corie 27:12

So as you have evolved, the corporations have also evolved because you mentioned, for instance, you might not have had a a business or a corporation that has a specific event. When you went into the bank, what you went in for? You went in as events, or how you how you started initially?

SPEAKER_04 27:26

I went in as a teller.

Corie 27:31

That's bank of commons days.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

Yeah, it's back in bank of commons days. Um I mean, I was in my twenties, I had two little children, and I I neither won. You know what I mean? So I went in as a party teller. But again, I just I always got involved in whatever the bank was doing. Voluntary, yeah. This is all voluntary stuff. They haven't a thing. They want ushers. I they they I I like to talk a lot too. So I used to really talk with the customers.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Okay, you know, they keep a magic light.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Yeah, well, the thing is that the customers used to come and wait for me. You know, they what they go in by by Lisa, you know, they had custom they had little old lady customers and things who, if they come and are not there, they're coming back the next day. Because they, you know, banking is personal, yeah. And and you don't want to tell your business. Everybody in those days you had books, you had to write up your past book, good days, and and things like that. You know, we did the sit down, tell us how to stand up all day. Now they have all kinds of fancy things, you had to write up the card, and uh and aging myself, yeah, really young, yeah. Yes, and and and actually at the end of the day, they had all these cards now, all the people you attended to. You had all their account cards, and they those had to go to be posted. You know, somebody sat on a like a typewriting machine and posted $20 debit, $40 credit, and for the next day. You had to do that every day because up because it's real time and you have no computer. You know? So it was a different thing. But I think that whole banking career really prepared me for life.

SPEAKER_05 29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

You know, as a young person, because you met people, you met everyone from grassroots to wealthy people. You know what I mean? The man who went a coffin, he bringing me bush from Carnage, right? And he said, Miss Gani, just drink this. And it wraps up in an old newspaper. Or there was a guy who bring me two turtles in a in a um a little aquarium. And and say, I think, I think these turtles will be good for you. And he ain't the line, and he said, I'll bring your present. I say, Oh my god. Of course, he I brought them. I couldn't say no. I couldn't take perfume and and high-level gifts, but I could take the bush tea. I could put a fish, you know, the fisherman, because I was at Westmore, so Carnage was right there. We had all the Carnage people. And um, you know, they would come in and they used to call me bank lady. You know, if you're walking down the street, walking down Frederick Street or around the Savannah, hey, look, bank lady boy. You know?

Corie 30:24

Original trend.

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Yeah, yeah, but you know, you that is priceless. That you, you know, you cannot pay to do networking like that. I suppose. That is networking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you think about it. I mean, now those still now, those people I know, you know, if I if I go into Westmall, the business people, you know, you go down Carnage by the fish market, people still know you.

Corie 30:51

Yeah, I suppose it's those relationships. Yeah. That bong to Saviour Well. They have. So it wasn't intentional. You didn't plan like a career in banking. You just was looking forward to.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

But I did move up the ranks in the bank eventually, because in those days, too, you could do a lot of internal courses. Right. Um, the bank, uh, it was CIBC, so it's Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, and the Canadians used to run training. They had a training center here in Trinidad, and they would send you on all these different training programs, customer service, marketing, you name it. So I took advantage of all those things, and they eventually sent me to Roytech to do the public relations diploma. It was the American Management Association. And so I did that. And then they said, Well, okay, if you do this and you pass it, we're gonna make you the public relations officer for the bank. So, you know, the cards fell in my favor, and they had never had a public relations officer. Um, because they weren't can Canada was very conservative, so they they were not very in the media and wanting to do things, but time was changing, and they had to embrace, you know, um embrace communications in that kind of of way and and step out of their box. And so I became that first public relations officer.

Corie 32:13

So where you had to build out what they were doing, so they had structure.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Um we we basically built it out. I mean, we had some guidance and um so you know, kind of uh being the face of the organization, we were doing a lot of community again engagement. Um, it wasn't called CSR in those days, but it was go wherever the the bank had a branch, we would do things to support the community, especially with all the national holidays, the Diwali celebrations. So I actually kind of created events for the bank at that time. You know, we we we had we used to have a big um Diwali celebration at Gulf City that became like a huge thing. So and I and now a lot of other people have modeled things after that. When we launched the Smart Start account, which was a children's account, we did it at the Gene Pierce Stadium, and we had all sorts of entertainers and uh and um there was a uh Michael Jackson look-alike, there were all sorts of breakdancing and and thing in the in the national stadium. Nobody had done those things before, you know. Yeah, so it it kind of propelled, it was it was like almost a catalyst to the event management thing. But um, and it and again, I met a lot of great media people like David back in those days, you know, who are who have become friends, you know. Some unfortunately are not with us any longer. But they they they were friends, you know. You see somebody on you you're coming out of an event and you see a journalist on the side of the road waiting for the taxi, you drop them home. You know, you're having something at your home, you invite them to come. So it wasn't just you're calling them for a story, you know.

Corie 33:59

Yeah, it's a unique thing. Like I again, that is a people do that a lot now. You just call them for a story is a real thing, right? So I've I've been in meetings and marketing before where they say, you know, invite the media. And I guess as a young MS in 1920, I just called different TV stations and radio stations. And I mean maybe it took me some time to realize it's still a job, it's still a person, it's not just a job. And the better the relationship you have with media and so on, the better your event. Because we used to do a lot of launch events, yeah, and you want the coverage. Yeah, but those early days you're talking about there, like now, if you have somebody who is PR, the PR might be solely responsible for the messaging.

SPEAKER_05 34:35

Yeah.

Corie 34:36

Right? Or coverage of the thing, or how it was shown in media. Back then, you're talking about from end to end, you had to conceptualize the events and everything. Yeah, I see, I see. And your early days, you you when you were younger, stepping back from Banker Commons days, you saw yourself as wanting to do events once of school, you were organizing all them things too. God, yes. Really?

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Yeah, I was a party girl.

Corie 34:56

Yeah, going the party organizing, organizing.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Back in those days, I was doing parties with Chinese laundry. I see. Right? When he was a DJ, you know, having a summer party and still a DJ. Yeah, well, how again, you know, I sometimes I say to myself, I wonder how I know all these people, boy. But it's really a whole lifelong journey of being in different things and knowing people in different stages and phases in your life. You know, Derek Lewis, you know, island people, when they were doing their, you have to find the party, you know, and you don't know what it is, caution, all these different things. Um, you know, we were all part of that generation coming up and and and you know, sort of of playing with this event management out of just a love for having people get together and have fun and do stuff together, you know. You have some bus parties. True, sure, sure. But it's just, you know, again, house parties. You know, you have a house party, it starts off with 20 people, and next thing, you know, you have 50 people in your house, and and next uh and it keeps going like that. Everybody's supposed to bring a bottle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

And and I wonder if it's still a house party.

SPEAKER_04 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:05

Not in the people's house anymore.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Had a rental house to do it.

SPEAKER_04 36:10

And I I suppose I just had that knack for making people feel happy.

Corie 36:15

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 36:16

I think that was it. My school.

Corie 36:17

What type of events it was? Was it just external events or things for the school as well?

SPEAKER_04 36:21

No, I didn't. I mean, I I was always part, I would I was always volunteer to be a part of internal things in the school, just like when I went to work. I think it was just that kind of of love for doing things like that.

SPEAKER_05 36:34

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:34

But um, for me it was always the summer party, the Easter party. We going down the islands party.

Corie 36:39

Oh, you're dealing with when school closed, right?

SPEAKER_04 36:41

When school closed. Lisa, when you have any party, you know. So and and and that again was a crazy scene because I went to St. Joseph Convent. But my parties had everybody from Trinity, Bishops, QRC, St. Joseph Convent in the lime, you know. Okay, you're bringing people together. So it was the bringing people. I I lived in Belmont on the circular. So the party, and but my parents had split up, so I kind of grew up with my cousins. Okay. And they lived in in Cascade. So I used to kind of move from house to house, you know. I used they they were like my sisters and brothers. So some of the parties used to be in Cascade, and some of the parties used to be in Belmont. So people were, and the Cascade crew was more of a bishops, Trinity kind of crowd. And then, you know, and then I had my other Saint Mary's, Saint Joseph Convent, friends. But then all of us used to get together. So again, that the network of people was since then.

Corie 37:42

Since then. Yeah. And your parents were in the medical field, right? Your dad was a doctor.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

Yes, my dad was a doctor and my mother was a nurse.

Corie 37:49

Yeah, not really event people, you know. So this thing comes from your skipper generation or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it when I was going to school, I always thought, okay, I'll be a lawyer. You know, I'll uh because I'm in convent and I'm doing A levels, and you know, you're just thinking of those traditional type of I didn't I never really thought of being a doctor because I wasn't into the sciences so much, but I was into literature, history, you know, those kind of things. And I um and I always thought, okay, probably I could make a good lawyer. Yeah. You know, and then you know little things changed, and I couldn't follow that path. And so I started to be practical, you know. I have to work, I have to do things, and then, you know, what you're really good at and what you like.

Corie 38:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I suppose maybe I got married at 19, so things change. David, David Doplay.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

David Doplay.

Corie 38:43

Yeah, so it is interesting to hear you talk about that in terms of getting into the bank. Because when I when I read about it's like difficult to figure out just from reading, okay, where does Spark come from for this event on this network and the supposed that everybody know? Because when you look at the medical side and then the the banking, it looks like you're talking to somebody who law songs more like it and convent. Yeah, but I could see it, I could see it.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

I guess it was there, it's just that we didn't really have event management. You know, it when you were in convent and they're giving you all the careers you could choose from.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Yeah, it wasn't a career.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

Event management wasn't a career, you know. Public relations may have might have been one. Yeah, you know, um, maybe advertising and marketing would have been something. But then again, you know, I came from a well, my father's Indian, and you know, and very ed they were all I my father was an island scholar winner from QRC, he won his science call, his name up there with Eric and them on the board. And um my all my uncles are scholarship winners. So, you know, at the end of the day, it was a very sort of academic um environment growing up that you know, education was very important. And I I value education. I it wasn't forced down my throat or anything like that, but I think it is a it is definitely a pillar that you know, as much as possible, all children should be exposed to in whatever form or fashion that is right for them. I'm not saying that they all have to learn science and and whatever, but we all need that foundation, you know, uh before we get to the stage that we could choose.

Corie 40:24

Yeah, whatever the education looks like, the education has come in so many different ways. So going into the banking environment, now you're thrust into PR. Uh you're seeing yourself as having a career in PR at that point in time, like corporate communication. Well, it didn't used to call it corporate come back then, no? It was just PR.

SPEAKER_04 40:40

It was just public relations. Right. And you know, even well, now it's very different at the end too, because public relations, you know, was really not about marketing. It was really about being the sort of the conscience of the organization of presenting material um that the for the public information um in you know in in a way that they would understand the company's vision and their their mission and and and and really not not as a lot of people put the PR spin on it. You know, you always used to hear that. That's unlike lie, you know, like lie. Um but pure PR, I don't think they have that anymore. No, I mean they they they are they might be professionals out there who will who will jump up and say differently. Uh much respect to them um because I am not really in that arena um full time anymore. So I'm sure there are ways now that they do it that is different to how it used to be done. Um and they face a lot more challenges as well, you know?

Corie 41:46

Yeah, I think it's different challenges for

PR Without Spin And Crisis Response

Corie 41:48

sure. Yeah. And I want to talk about how you move to Republic as well, but let's talk about our PR and the spin-on it thing. Because uh in lecturing part-time, right? I do marketing lectures and then they have this thing called the communications mix or something like that, they call it. And um, so it's advertising, sales, promotion, da da da da. And it's end with PR, right? There's always I always see the way they write the books. It's almost like an afterthought, even in the textbooks, right? And uh in talking to students, you hear that a lot. They be their belief when you ask them about what is PR, their belief is that something went wrong and you have a PR person to fix it. Well, you call that crisis management, but they see it that way, whether it's PR for a personality or for organization. Different in your experience?

SPEAKER_04 42:33

Yeah, well, what you're talking about, that mix is what we used to call integrated marketing communications, right? IMC. Um, and I mean I think that we still use that as the basis for how we handle communications within the organization. Um, and that's why I say, you know, I'm I I kind of question whether we we do have pure PR being done in any organization. Um to me, the PR part of it too is, you know, if you want to talk about um brand building, you know, how how do we build the brand? Um PR maybe could be associated in some ways with that because you want to to what you're really doing is talking about the essence of your brand and your brand values, okay? So how do we take those brand values and and and communicate them through our actions, right? Um, so that is not building an event for it. It is how the is when you think about yourself, what is the personality of this organization? What do we stand for? How do we show that through our actions within the community, right? Whether it is through maybe our CSR program could be part of that. Um, and CSR, in its true sense, is really community building. And and creating a legacy within the community that is not tied to a return on uh you know a bottom line return on investment. Yes. Brand loyalty will create that on its own. It should.

SPEAKER_05 44:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

Because you you will say, well, okay, this company has done so much for my community. You know, I definitely gonna support them. I'm gonna be loyal to them. I'm gonna be this.

Corie 44:23

Especially in today's world, I found that like now the consumer youths now, they reward that more than we in my era. I just wanted Jordans. I didn't care how Nike behave. You understand? But now youths really, really tie to how the what kind of corporate citizen they're buying from.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

Yeah.

Corie 44:40

Yeah. Yeah. So that proactive nature of communications is something that you you'd have worked on. You're trying to make sure.

SPEAKER_04 44:45

And then and then as you as you alluded to, I mean, crisis management is a big part of that. Because in anything that you do, you know, nothing is going to be perfect. You know, accidents are accidents. They're not something that you plan for. I mean, you they again you have to mitigate against risk. So you want to make sure that if an accident does happen, that the company has done their due diligence and that they uh they they didn't just allow something like this to happen. And we have many fiascos that have arisen and also gotten worse because they didn't handle the communications properly. They waited too long, they didn't have a proper spokesperson, the person didn't know the issues, the issues were still coming to the fore, and you answer before that. You know, so the timing of all of these mess the messaging um is important.

Corie 45:38

I wonder how uncomfortable it is for you to sit home and see it play out. Because with Facebook now, I like I have a few people who I know in PR and in communications, right? And I go to their page immediately when these things happen. Because one comes to mind was a very big national incident, people lost their lives. And I remember being in class at that point in time, right? And I'm not a PR or communications expert, but I was trying to show them something, and it's a sensitive topic at the time, so I don't want to get too deep into it. But I was just saying, like they lighten when they decided to do the press conference. I was like, you had to pay attention to these things. All those things will affect the message. Yeah. When you home seeing these things, how much you you want to run long there and do it yourself?

SPEAKER_04 46:18

Well, sometimes now I don't want to see time. You know, I'm sorry, you know, and I think that is that is, you know, because sometimes to the frustration of also knowing that we can do better, right? And that we we seem to be going wrong in circles in some instances where these things should not be happening. Yeah. Right? We have too many experts now. We have too much access to information, and yet still it's still happening, right? So, you know, my I I I kind of batten in a different crease right now in that, you know, I I my 40 is my event management, and that's you know, that's what I'm doing now. And I, you know, also, I mean, the company should have already a crisis management plan, right? Uh, you know, how they how what is the process if something happens? They wouldn't know what the actual accident is or what's going to happen. But in the case of XYZ, they can have scenarios because they have all these experts working. They know, okay, if you're in oil and gas, you know, what what are some of the things that could happen? Okay, so you could have an explosion on the plant, you could have da-da-da-da-da. So they can have they, and and we see where they have drills, right? On the if you go to most of these um places on the estate, uh Point Lisas, you know, they do regular drills, the airport does it, different things. So they have risk scenarios. And in as part of that plan, there's also a communications part of it. Who will be the spokesperson? Who, you know, who will issue the first press release? Who it the it's it's documented. There's a manual.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_04 48:13

Right? So it's not if they don't have that, then I mean it is a real crisis in that they now either have to go out and hire a a communications firm or something.

Corie 48:22

As with this charge now, you could you could.

SPEAKER_04 48:24

Yeah, and they are big, there are firms who do this job very well. Yeah, who can come in, but remember you're reacting to something that has happened. So you have to be on the spot quick.

Corie 48:35

Especially today, because the conversation fly in online.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

Oh, exactly. Before, before, you know, you had a lot of this leeway to do planning, right? Right? Um, because things didn't happen the way that it's happening. Now, by the time the accident has happened, 10 people have videos posted it showing you the person blowing up or falling off the tractor or, you know, or whatever it is, and everybody has started to comment about it.

Corie 49:08

Right?

SPEAKER_04 49:08

So you do not have that luxury of being able to manage it in that kind of times, you know, time um given the given time. You you no longer have that. You can't do the press release and then send it to the to so so-and-so to vet it, to make sure that they approve it, to think. You you have to have people, the people who are supposed to be able to do it should also have the authority to be able to put out these communications based on whatever strategy has been discussed as part of that community. And the bigger organizations do have that, those mechanics in place. And even with that, it is it is still a big, big challenge because you're reacting, as you say, to a lot of what is going on on social media and public opinion.

Corie 50:00

Yeah, I saw one where a friend of mine is in charge of one of those companies on the estate who entered out. It's very, very public, the company looking to pull out now, apparently. And um, I'm seeing in WhatsApp groups letters signed by him in terms of internal communication to the company, which we not live in, we're not from that world. It used to be news come out the next day, and nobody can respond to that till the day after. So you have some way of control and the narrative of the story. Yeah. But I wonder for smaller organizations, because um you make up a scenario, right? So you're not talking about real things, right? Suppose you have a school and they have a nun in the school who in charge of the school, and the newspaper do an article, and they say the nun is the greatest person ever. And then all the students from the school come and say, Hey, listen, I had a bad experience. It's an anti-taler, you know. I mean, always call the person nancy drunk. It's one of them things. What do you then? Because I would imagine that a school may not have that machinery inside the students. No, they don't. They don't.

SPEAKER_04 51:00

They don't. Now, I mean, that would have gone to another level too, because now you're talking about the archdiocese and you're talking about the you know, you're going to be.

Corie 51:09

You're not just talking on behalf of the school.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

No, because remember that in that scenario, this is uh this is a government-assisted denominational school, and who has a board, and that board, you know, is directly now um tied to the the church, you know. So it it but to me again I would say, you know, did the journalist do their homework? Okay, I don't think we do our homework, right? Because if you're going to interview this person, you interviewing me. God, David, tell you I was married at 19. You did your homework. You knew my father was a doctor. You know, in the conversation, you clearly did your homework and you, you know, you know something about me. I have been in interviews with a CEO where a a reporter comes in to do a uh you're coming into you're coming in to interview the CEO of an organization, and when he says, What do you know about my company? The reporter said, Well, really, I don't know anything. Now I would feel shame. Honest. I mean, how could you go to an interview? You've gotten an interview with a senior CEO in Trinidad and Tobago, and you're not feeling bad to say you don't know you don't know about the company. Yeah. No. So, you know, again, if I was if, and this is just my opinion, I would say, you know, it started with the lack of preparedness to do that interview with the person. Did they do a background, you know, into the to is she well like you just say, okay, you're gonna position her in this way. That's very unfair.

Corie 53:05

Yeah, yeah. Very tricky too. And well, maybe when this happens to us, I'll reach out to you for advice as to how to respond to it. Because when I saw it, my first thought was, hey, that could happen to me. Because the truth about it is that I might do a little bit of research about the person, and I try to do, I try to see what's in the public space, but I also try to talk to people that the person knew. So, so, so but David knows everybody, so I have a little bit of insight there. So that that helps. But it's the same thing I said about protocol, you know. For me, it's about respect. I I don't feel good. I've I'm very nervous if I come here and I don't know anything about the person. I I I feel, and the more I research about the person is the more respect I have. But the truth is that I could end up with somebody here who I skippy with everybody, you know. So the thing about it is I wonder sometimes if I publish something where the person I I could be just dead wrong. And it it may seem as though everybody who come here, I like and I interact with and it's fun, and you know, and then all of a sudden now I being blamed for putting sister Clarence out there. Yeah, well tricky.

SPEAKER_04 54:09

And and that does not mean that I I don't know the lady, sure, so I cannot comment on her personality, but clearly there was an issue there for it to cause so much public reaction.

Corie 54:22

It couldn't be hidden, if you ask me. Yeah, if you ask me.

SPEAKER_04 54:33

But nobody spoke up about it. Which also to me puts big question marks because why wasn't it, you know, brought to the attention of the higher-ups beforehand? Of course. Right? So um what that article did is expose the situation and um and and again counteract the the the positive article that they were trying to do in that way, you know, and and that those are again are uh the risks that you take, you know, when you do things like this. I guess we're gonna say but you know, the thing, the thing that I also think that we, you know, not just with that particular situation, but even background checks. Okay, people going into positions of authority or or or significant positions, you know. We have also seen where there people are appointed, they're given certain jobs or or or whatever. And a couple of weeks later, expose. You know, if you are going into this, isn't it a natural process that you do a background check on your personality?

Corie 55:49

Yeah, and at least once you find out what a journalist could find out about you. At least.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

A police certificate of good character just doesn't give you a background check. It just tells you the person never make a jail. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 56:05

Or they've got 10 tickets for parking or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 56:09

But it's not going to tell you all of the things that maybe are relative to that position that you are going to hold. Of course. And, you know, the more senior position is, you know, the more that you are, you know, you have access to information, confidentiality, you know, the whole thing. So you don't want to be um putting plasters on source afterwards. You want to, you know, as much as possible. As much as possible.

Corie 56:37

Yeah, and I guess the more plasters you try to put on source, it starts to become a realist about the image of the of the brand or the company or the institution in this case.

Mergers, Culture, And The Human Touch

Corie 56:46

So for you, going back to your career, you spent how long at Bank of Commerce?

SPEAKER_04 56:50

Oh, about 14 years.

Corie 56:52

Oh, it was a long time. So you eventually stayed at PR office, or you continue to change the.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

I I did. I that was my last position, and then um we went through the merger with Republic Bank.

SPEAKER_05 57:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:04

So um I worked with the merger management team in communications uh on the Bank of Commerce side because they had representatives from Republic and Bank of Commerce. So we were, you know, part of that team that dealt with a lot of the, you know, the human issues, um communication. Yeah, I guess internal and external, I suppose. Yes. And then most of it at that time was internal. And um, you know, we I went around and I visited every single branch in Trinidad and Tobago with Mr. Harford and Mr. Huggins, who were the who were the two GMs at the time, um, you know, talking to staff about what was happening and how things were going to roll out and so on. Um, so again, you know, you get to meet a lot of people. Um they, you know, they were there to assure staff about what was happening. And then we also had an external campaign, you know, for customers because you were, you know, the banks were very concerned at that time about customer retention, um, making sure that the bank of commerce customers would transition over and not want to leave and go to Scotia Bank or another bank at the time. So um, and again, I suppose relationships mattered, and I had a good really I had good relationships with the bank of commerce side, and therefore I was kind of valuable in that way that I would be able to, you know, talk to a lot of the clients and and try to I would have assumed that when because I remember this middle.

Corie 58:36

A matter of fact, that's my starter counts is why I bank with Republic up to today.

SPEAKER_05 58:39

Yeah.

Corie 58:39

Because I remember the transition and they tell us this and a sale package, and it's all no one knows you're doing, yeah, and they tell us how it will transition and the card changed and all that. But I would have assumed then that at least in my mind, the Republic was a much bigger company than Banker Commerce. I don't know if I write about that. Yeah. So I'd assume that their PR team or the people responsible for communications were would they would have put their own people in place to manage that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

I mean, they were taking the lead as they should. I mean, it was, you know, they they talked about it as a merger, but in my my palance, it was an acquisition. Yeah, right. Well, for my layman, I thought so as well. Right? So so on the books it was a merger. Um for most of the the you know, the public opinion of the staff of Bank of Commerce, I would, you know, venture to talk on their behalf. Um, you know, that they they did feel that it it was much more of an acquisition in that, you know, they were they were losing their identity. You know, they were they were going to they had uh they had a um one of those was it um voluntary separation C SEP. They had an offer for that. And then of course, you know, they there was um persons who if they wanted to could resign. Yeah, no. If they just felt that they were ready to walk away, they could. Um, but when you when you go through these things, the human factor is so important. You know, people I I don't know if people re you know really understand how much your job or your career defines you. And there have been surveys done, you know, psychological and other surveys done, um, that show that people are more concerned about their status than they are about the money. Okay, because in the merger they assured everyone that you your salaries would not be affected. So if you're working for $10,000 in Bank of Commerce, you'll s and you go transition over to a republic, you'll still work for $10,000. What would be affected is your um grade level. So a person who maybe worked 20 years in the bank might be a grade five. Your salary staying the same, but in the new dispensation, your grade level might be a three. Now that caused more upset than people's you know, salary salary, of course. Because there was no change. The only thing is if you were upgraded, if your level was upgraded, well, you okay, you're good. Um, and because they lost if you go down, you lose seniority as far as if you, you know, a management, manager or whatever, you know, is within your scope of work. So that was something that I think affected a lot of people. And because they were being merged, you know, they were the the other bank was taken over. You know, they had to now comply with the new order of doing business, the new culture, and culture was a big thing because Bank of Commerce was a, you know, um, a very service-oriented um community type of banking, um, conservative with the Canadian aspect of it, and Republic was a very corporate, um, is a very corporate bank, and they have they have taken some of those um sort of values over into how they do banking now, which is what they shared with, you know, which I would say is the benefits and the values of the merger as well.

Corie 1:02:38

Even from a consumer standpoint, yeah, because I'm a child in St. James and they had one at the corner of Moonaram Street and the media.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Yes, yeah.

Corie 1:02:44

And I joined Banker Commerce because when I you know used to collect all coins in the piggy bank. I woke up there with all my coins. Me and I'm supposed to separate and cong these things. So the teller then was very gracious. She took all it must be it must have been you now that I think about it. I was not saying all the time with people.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:00

I was not St. James.

Corie 1:03:06

If so, all of primary school still. So I felt like as a customer, because of what that was, I wanted to be with Banker Commodore. So when all the signs changed, it was like a messy thing. Like when we talk about with Juvies.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

And you know, efficiency, in seeking to be efficient, sometimes we lose those small touches. You know, and and again, it's you know, I'm not saying one is right or wrong, but we have to find, you know, a kind of a happy medium place, right? And now, I mean, now it's even it's gone beyond that because now we have internet banking and we have all these things, and we have we're seeing across the board in all the banks now that you know they they kind of want to um minimize the customer interaction, the human interaction, and you know, get people to use the online banking in order to cut costs and and for better profits at the end of the day. Right? So the human component is gone. But my beef with that is that you know, this is Trinidad and Tobago, okay? And culturally, we are not the same as the United States, Canada, New York, wherever. And more so, there are different subcultures in Trinidad, from where if you go from being Port of Spain town centric to going up to Felicity or to Tableland or to Manzanilla or to wherever. If you have never left Port of Spain, you are living in a bubble. Okay, and your reality is not real. No, it's just not real. 100%. It's not real, right? And so I'll give you an event example. Many years ago, they asked me, I was in P in the same PR department, they say, okay, we're going to decorate the bank for Christmas. Okay. And we want to go this year, we want to go with one theme throughout Trinidad and Tobago, right? So I hired a very prestigious decorator, and we said, okay, lovely colours. We're going to go with um creams and burgundy, which were the color of Bank of Commerce, right? And gold. And we're going to do poncettes and la la la. And we're going to decorate all the branches like that. All right. So, yeah, Leslie Court loves it, Westmore love it, Port of Spain love it. Well, we're gone east. They hate it. This is not Christmas. Christmas is green and gold, and where the balloons, and where do you know? Now that is a simple example. Right? Because that was not Christmas to them. Right? So take it multiply it by a hundred now. And you're talking about, you know, how do we communicate? They had indoor and again, they had people who were still coming in with their thumbprint. Okay, you come in, old age pensioners. I used to go out to the car. Sometimes they can't come in. You go out to the car with your rubber stamp and you let them stamp in front of you because you have to witness that they are alive, right? Those things not again. You know, all the things. Man have a heart attack in his car. The daughter crying because you were the last person to see the man. He came in. He was a messenger. He came into the bank. He did his transaction for his the company. He went out to the car, and as he sat down in the car, he got a massive heart attack and died. I was the last person to talk to the man. So when the daughter came, you know, she wanted to know how her dad was. And you know, it's about people. You know, we losing that people skill.

Corie 1:07:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:03

You know, that that's a good thing.

Corie 1:07:05

Well, you said losing, right? But think of people, there are people who are born into this world you're talking about. Yeah. No, you know, so they don't, they may not know it at all. Like I see my son go through COVID years, for instance, really, on screens at school and games was on screen. And so now he have friends in school, they have sports day. He have friends in school that all I'm going sports day. And then he's calling me, come on back. Come on. I was like, Why are you hustling to leave sports day? That was the thing. Yeah. It's because they want to go and play games. Yeah. So all of them who was right leaving to go wherever they were to congregate uh virtually, I suppose. So it's a different, different world, different, different space. So you going into that Republic had to be a new world to Bank of Commerce

HCL, Visionary Development, And Legacy Projects

Corie 1:07:45

as well. Eventually, you're you're in PR in Republic, Toronto.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:48

Well, I was supposed to, but I resigned.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:51

Oh, yeah, but when something went wrong with the response.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:56

Because I, I mean, like you said, they had their team and commerce had their team. I didn't want to go back into the brand, the branches. I was offered a position. Um, it was a management position. But at the time I was enjoying my public relations communications job. Yeah, yeah, you don't get a lot of things. And I was thinking, okay, that's my career. You know, so we can't have two heads of corporate communications. And they had one. So I kind of put my feelers, and this is after working for 14 years in the bank, I did not get the VSAP, I did not get the big check. I got a lovely painting and a party that um Andre Alexander covered in those days. So I got my splash in the papers and and and handshakes and lovely things. Um, but I, you know, I I walked away. And I I I I think it again, nothing happens by chance. And uh it was part of my career progression. Gotcha. You know, because Bank of Commerce was my family. Yeah, I understand. You know, this the friends that I made there are still my friends. And uh they, you know, at that kind of age in your early 20s, you grow, you learn, you go through so many things, um, personal and everything else. And and those people, you're spending most of your time of your day with them, you know. So the whether it's the like you say, the sports days and the and the media parties and the different things that we, you know, that we did, the customer. We we came up, Bank of Commerce was the first people, first bank to do customer service appreciation days. And again, that was a kind of idea, you know, that we floated out there and where where we would have a day, and you know, we have eats and drinks in the bank hall, and we we, you know, people come in and they get a little token and we have music playing and all that.

Corie 1:09:53

Them corporate things you don't see a lot. Well, maybe the 5Ks take over for that now because the corporate 5K is becoming one of those congregating times now.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:01

And then remember, they that was those were the days where the bank and hall um they they encourage people to come into the bank. Now they don't want people coming into the bank, so you're not gonna have uh a customer appreciation day like that.

Corie 1:10:14

Yeah, you talk about security being the first people to greet you in events. Now security is greeting like the bank like this, like all right, so where you come in from? Yeah, pick up your hands, yeah. What's going on? Yeah, go home and do that from the bank.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

Yeah, so uh you know it's it was it's it has it has there's been a transition away from those kind of things. But but they still have to the the the the organizations, the banks and others still have to find a way to engage with their customers. So, like you say, they cut the 5Ks are a great way. Yes, I suppose. Um, and then they're supporting a cause which may be related to what the bank's vision is as well in their CSR and and doing something for the good of the community. So it it you know, it you can't stay static.

Corie 1:10:57

Yeah, you have to program. Especially because I think we have to, like in the office by us, we make it a point to get together. I tell them, I mean, I want to do all meetings virtually, but when we come together, I want drinks and food, I want us to line. Yeah. Because any lime is when the real business happens to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you eventually did you apply it and you went somewhere else when you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:18

Yeah, well, I got a job offer from um the HCL group of companies. Yeah, from the HCL group of companies, which was CL Financial's biggest land bank holder in the Caribbean. Um, and I always remember in my exit interview from Republic Bank, I met with Mr. Harford, Ron Harford, and Ron said, Well, you're going to a very good company. He said, Because this is one of the few companies that has always operated in um credit. They were cash. Oh, you're talking about from a banking book. He says, and you know, at the time he said to me, he said, Well, you know, one of the things, Lisa, you should tell them is that they should take this company on a stock exchange. You know, it it is a it is a very sound company and it has a lot of potential. And, you know, so we parted on very good terms, you know. And and I have gone on to maintain extremely good relationships with Republic Bank and this. I've even worked for I've worked for them from time to time doing events for them too. But um, you know, that was that was, you know, my first eye opening for of HCL because I didn't really know too much about them at the time. Uh, and I went on to find out, you know, a lot more. And and I worked with them for another 10 years or 12 years.

Corie 1:12:42

Um, so you were in URL HCL, boom, the days of ASCII. Fifi and Lisa Gandhi. Fifi and Lisa Ghani.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:50

Yes. And and and again, they were coming into their own so that um they had never again had a corporate communications manager. So they were up, you know, upgrading to as far as their organizational um, you know, resources and stuff like that. And so I built that department. Um, and it was 17 group companies, active group companies within the HCL group. Um from HCL group. Within the HCL group. Because HCLU, when I got there, was Home Construction Limited. Right. And under them, they they had a whole group, a whole lot of companies. Some were active, some weren't. Of course, they were the property division um of CL Financials. So they were part of that CL Financial group with Mr. Dupree when they were in the height of his CL Financial. And so um, but HL was very autonomous, um, just like Angostura and all the other companies within the CL Financial Group. Right. Um, they were run by a separate board and everything. So once we started to look, when once I started to look at that, you know, we looked at rebranding home construction.

unknown 1:14:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:06

You know, and we be and the rebranding came with the HCL group of companies. I did not know that.

Corie 1:14:12

I thought HCL had it was I thought it was a shot in it to HCL. That was deliberate.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:17

Yes. Because the thinking at the time was that CL didn't want to come across as this big, um, over the over big company with all these, the, you know, boasting about all these different companies. Sure. And then it switched to let's tell everybody about all these companies. We're big, you know, we're doing so well, we whatever. So the HCL group was was the umbrella for Plan Vyron, for you know, um the premier malls, which was true value.

Corie 1:14:49

And I guess I can't call it home construction of the malls and everybody. One roadbrook place was was the old as well. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:55

Yeah, the whole of Trinity.

Corie 1:14:57

Of course, right. Right?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:59

Millennium Park, East Gates, uh, well, East Gates, the the housing development, not the mall. Yeah, before the mall. And then the golf course, all of these things. In fact, my first outing with Mr. Fifi was uh we went in a pickup truck and we went up to Trincity. And they had Trincity Mall. And they had like Castleton and Dinsley and those. The original Trincity. The original Trincity. And we driving through this field of bush, and Mr. Fifi is going, um, well, this is going to be a golf course here, and this is going to be a high-end residential area. And I'm going, I'm thinking, my man, the man crazy, you know. He he's talking a little crazy, you know. And all I see in his peppers and watermelons because they planted the to keep away the squatters and stuff, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:50

So I said, okay, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. So yeah. And gone back. I said, Lord have mercy, what is this? You know, but you know, Mr. Fifi was way beyond his time. Um, I would say he was he is definitely one of my mentors. Um and, you know, he, I haven't seen anybody in development like him. You know, he's still alive and um he's still, I think, active and doing stuff uh uh as well. But vision, a visionary, he was he is a visionary. And um, you know, he's given a lot to Trinal and Tobagan. I think somebody should recognize him as saying that out here.

Corie 1:16:35

100% I agree. Like even you talking about Trinity, what you're talking about now is where Millennium Lakes and that whole development. This is a different world. It is. But even going back to St. James, I know what that space was before it was Warren Brook. And when I see that thing, I say that is impossible. I said that can't fit there, number one. What they could do with TSPC, you know, these simple problems.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:55

And I mean, the team that that worked with Fifi, you know, I have to say, I mean, I'm blessed to have been part of that team. We put in a lot, a lot, a lot of long hours. And, you know, again, it is like I I don't know, it it it didn't have to do with the money. Sure. You know, it yes, we got a salary and stuff, but it was really how much we were part of developing Trend Island Tobago in a real way, providing homes for people, providing a community that they could belong to. You know, people used to tell me, Lisa, um, or they're trying to do the Westmorens and the East, or what? People ain't going up. Still call it East Morrins. And they say, people, people not going up there. You feel people going up there? Uh-huh. Look at it now, right? All the things that Mr. Fifi, crazy Mr. Fifi, told me in those days. They're gonna have a courthouse here and we're gonna put a bank here. There's Republic Bank up there now. All of the um, you know, the Starbucks, the super farm, all of that was part of that plan that he had 30 years ago. And and it was there from before I joined HCL because when I went, he, you know, we spoke about the decentralization plan for Port of Spain that was done sometime in the 80s, you know, um, where they were where they would create growth pools um so that you you you create, you turn dormitory settlements into areas where people live and work and go to school. So one of the big things in Trinity, Trincity was the Trinity and Bishop Anne Trinity and Bishop Arnested School, which was built um using a Canadian model as well, that that HCL built. Right? So it was to put these anchor um organizations and buildings into the area so that you didn't have to leave there because the statistics will show that, like, I mean, all these government offices and things that are still centralized in Port of Spain is why we have all the traffic coming into Port of Spain, and people have to come so they bring their children and go to school in Port of Spain one time. And then at four o'clock, everybody move back out, and then there's a people might take it for granted.

Corie 1:19:07

No, but I went Fatih Mo you in convent, you wouldn't know people, it doesn't matter where you live. If you want to go to good school, you was coming in town. Yeah. And the thing changed and make it a community that is kind of in and of itself sustainable. And so and there is, I mean, Trinity is a real good example of it because it's still or David Spot Friday evening one by one Woodbrook Place now is is is like everybody like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

One Woodbrook was more or less the last big project that we worked on before the demise of everything. And um, you know, one Woodbrook again was another thing that everybody was like, you know, you're crazy. Yeah, it was also true. But um, you know, we we went through with that and the all the community consultations in Woodbrook, you know, the um negotiations with phase two and Starliffe and ETSPCA. Um, yeah, and and all of that is real historical things. You know, when we first put up the towers, we actually named the three towers after the three um steel band groups that were, you know, in intrinsic to that area. It was invaded. One towers was the invaders tower, the star left tower, the phase two tower. Um people noticed it was named after the pans. There was a function. We did an event and and we cut a ribbon and we did that. Um you know, and it would that was or that is what they were originally named. Whether they still have that name, the powers that be that took them over and so on. We don't know what they did with that historic thing. But again, even um the golf course, the restaurant was called Muscovado.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:44

I remember.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

Right? And that had a history to it as well, you know. The the golf course is a PGA golf course. You know, the the people who built that golf course came from Scotland, they were here for years, you know.

Corie 1:20:56

It had to be Scotland, because whoever made that a wicked in real life.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:00

You ever play on golf? You play golf? No, yeah, that's what I'm saying now. Because Millennium Lakes is one of the hardest courses.

Corie 1:21:07

But me and no good neither. It's difficult.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

It is one of the more challenging courses. And of course, these same people built plantation in Tobago because again, HCL was the development of um of CL that built plantations in Tobago as well.

Corie 1:21:26

Difficult like hell too, but maybe my skill level, maybe my skill level. So we could talk about that the miser HCL or CL Financial as a group, because we saw, like in the public spaces is a major change.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

Yeah.

CL Financial Lessons And Life In Public Office

Corie 1:21:37

I remember being in university at the time debating this thing. Many of the fellows who I was there were that were actually working in HCL, and the debate was hey, these people are visionaries and they make the company, or hey, these people need to be stopped and the government needs to intervene and take over the companies. I wonder for you at the center of it, especially with communications being your role. What's it like for you personally working through some of these things?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:58

Yeah, I think it was very challenging. You know, it was very challenging because, again, the autonomous nature of the companies within the group also had different personalities, um, you know, organizational-wise, but also leadership-wise. Um, and of course, I was not at that level. I was working underneath the CEO, but still very privy to a lot of communications with regards to, you know, things that were happening in the group. And and and within the group, there also was, you know, competition between the different companies, different CEOs as well. Um because they they were, you know, they were pushing their business. You know, they want HCL, want HCL to look good, Angasura and Anvasura to look good, um, Clico and Clico, and you know, so these are and and big, big, big personalities, you know, big personalities. So that was a little bit above my pay grade, you know, but at the same time, um entrepreneurship, I think, and risk is just that. You know, people who are entrepreneurs at that level take great risks. You know, we we could listen to the Branson story, we can read, you know, other other Elon Musk, whoever, whoever, and you know, look at how they behave. You know, if they had $50 and they're saving two and uh for whatever, they take an oil $50 and borrowing your 10.

Corie 1:23:33

And borrowing your 10.50 plus. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:35

Yeah, so they're going for it. Yeah, and and so, you know, I think coming down to the end, that is what we saw. We saw that expansion of CL, you know, where um Lawrence went into, you know, buying Boone's short and um expanding the brand and doing construction in Miami and building the W and all these different projects that um that are very capital-intensive projects as well, happening. And you know, uh that that that's from my looking on perspective, because as I say, I was not at that level that I was in the boardroom making decisions. But it seemed to me that you know things kind of just got away from them at that point in time.

Corie 1:24:21

Yeah, when I look at it publicly, and it's something that in talking to people like yourself here, whether it's artists, as people in the arts, themselves, or business people, I wonder sometimes how we treat the people who have taken that big risk to become that great thing. You know, I wonder about it sometimes. Yeah. So let's talk big personalities now. I see David tell me this, right? Isn't I mean right? David again, boy, David. But he tell me David. But David told me. Uh-huh. And so did the newspaper that at one point you were advisor to the prime minister as well. Communications as well, was it was your role then?

SPEAKER_04 1:24:57

Yes. Um, it was advisor public engagement.

Corie 1:25:00

Gotcha. And I know a lot of that could be confidential, so not to get into that. But I wonder, again, what can I like what makes you take the position, why you went there, how you felt when you when you approached it?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:10

Um, well, it wasn't planned. No. Right? It was not planned. But um, at the time, the person who had been in the position, um, there was an incident and they had to leave and they were looking for someone. So I was recommended. And uh I got a phone call from the Prime Minister asking me if I was interested in coming to work with her. And first I was shocked.

Corie 1:25:39

Right, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:40

Like, oh my god, I'm talking to the Prime Minister. You know what I mean?

Corie 1:25:44

You know, so many know what.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:45

Well, I had met her on occasion in the camp in the campaign leading up to the election, but um, we were not besties. Sure, sure. You know, so but and she's prime minister, so you know, you're getting a call from the prime minister, and it's like, oh wow. And I, you know, I I thought about it, and my initial reaction was that, you know, I was I felt very honored to be asked, and I also felt very honored to be able to serve the first woman prime minister of our country. And that was my rationale going into it, you know, because I had never been in politics, I had never worked for a politician um or government in that role. I've always I came from a private sector background, and um and this was new territory for me, but I I always liked challenges, and I said, Well, okay, I'm coming, I'm going to go and give it a try, right? And that's how it began. So the job was um advisor public engagement, which um basically covered the prime minister's um interactions with different stakeholder groups and so on, people who wanted to meet with her, engagements that she would be invited to um actual events at the diplomatic center, um, things to do with visiting dignitaries and heads of state and so on. And of course, again, part of a team of people who would support things of that nature.

Corie 1:27:21

By this time you have the master's and protocol and diplomacy and these things. Oh, so you do that after a while. Yes, I did it after. Yeah, I always wonder, like, because you see me, if the prime minister called me, right? He's my little hubris, right? If I get out what me into no degree after that, and I don't know everything about that already.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:38

Yeah. So, you know, and and again, I had dabbled in in the area of protocol before. I had done a certificate program. I had gone to Brussels and trained in Brussels at the International School of Protocol and Diplomacy. I'd gone to Washington. Oh, so you prepped it at the same time. I had I had I had qualifications in it. Sure. But I it was the first time I was going to be operating at this level. And of course, when you're operating for a prime minister, you're working with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the Protocol Department there. The Prime Minister has a protocol officer in the office of the Prime Minister. So you're supported by a lot of other professionals, you know. And so again, another learning curve.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:23

Because now you're actually taking all that information that you learnt in a book or in a course and actually being able now to implement it in a real, real life situation. And that was invaluable, you know, really, really valuable to me. So you enjoyed it. That that that was the part that was to me the you know the most um enjoyable. Not not just enjoyable, but challenging and and um interesting. Interesting.

Corie 1:28:57

Do you like these challenges again in the sense that you you enjoy these things? Because I would be uh I don't know. I like I wonder sometimes in the private sector, and having worked in private sector so long, you must be calculating now the risk associated with good and take a position. That's a funny place sometimes, you don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:12

Well, I think you know, I didn't realize even though I I had experience in corporate, I think I still had a bit of nigh naivety. Gotcha um in the difference of the of the two. Right? And uh so you know it it did take a lot of adjusting too. Um and I suppose I had my detractors and and you know, as well, people who didn't want you to succeed, um or people who didn't want you to be there. So you had to learn to deal with that.

Corie 1:29:55

Yeah, I guess the reality of positions like those is those that bakes into the system. There are some people who before they know who you are, they mean where you succeed. That's the reality of the political life. Yeah. But David also told me that you also work with a gentleman by name. I'm afraid to call certain names on this thing, though. Should I say Barry Griffith? Somebody no we told me I had a similar position with Gary Griffith as well, right? While he was commissioner of police.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:19

Yes, while he was commissioner of police.

Corie 1:30:20

Oh, that came about the recommendation again?

SPEAKER_04 1:30:22

Um, yes, during it was it was um also during COVID. Right. You know, so um for the two years of COVID, I worked for the TTPS in the communications department as well, um, with Francis Joseph, um a well-known media person and and corporate person, um, who also worked with me in the office of the prime minister. Okay, okay. He came in late in the game, um, but he was the media person for the prime minister um as well. Yeah. So we did know each other from that time. And um, so we worked quite closely together in communications because when I first went in, it was under the event management portfolio. But of course, during COVID, there weren't very many events. Um, the police did have some internal, you know, we did some internal events, um uh, you know, um with limited number of people and all the rest of the protocols and online and so on. Um, but by and large, you know, we weren't really doing major big external events at that point in time. And we had to come up with creative ideas to do things um like traditional things like independence and um and and other national celebrations um in a in the COVID environment. But basically, I I um supported Francis um in in media. Uh we worked every day. Yeah you know, um we actually went out to work, you know.

Corie 1:31:53

So you never stop working, I suppose you do.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:56

And we worked um alternate weekends. So um because your crime is always happening, it's you're always on call. And you know, the thing was to send out press releases and um to cover stories that were happening, and then of course, internal communications with the officers and stuff.

Corie 1:32:13

Oh, which without making it uh to broaden it, one of the things that I wonder about a lot in positions like those is uh two very, very high-profile people polarizing in their own way. And I look at people who I wonder about people who work in PRO communications in for people like them globally. Because uh we have now presidents of countries who tweet, for instance, their thoughts. And I wonder again, like those press releases, I waiting for your Facebook response. Do you do you watch all of this? Like with because I from up from a world where the the words of a president would be managed, I'm assuming. And it goes through a vetting process and somebody says something, but now when I see a man saying it's bomb me shit, is it like I wonder if it's coming from them or is that as a brother?

SPEAKER_04 1:32:57

I think you have to look at personalities, huh? There's some personalities who are very laid back and they don't want to be, they they they are very willing to hand it over to you, and they want you to be the face and you to execute and then and then the face in terms of speak of speaking, yeah, what they say, speaking and also crafting the messaging.

Corie 1:33:18

And crafting the message includes written and as well as what I'm supposed to say, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:22

Okay, yeah, and then there are other personalities who like to talk and want to say what they want to say, and you know, if you have an advisor, you know, an advisor is just that an advisor can advise you, give you the options, and say, look, this is A, B, and C, this is what I recommend. And they have to choose.

Corie 1:33:46

If you're the leader, that's yeah, I guess that's yeah, you have to do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:50

You are the ultimate leader, you can choose what you decide the way you decide to go. I can't I can't make you do that.

Corie 1:34:00

But I guess we when you advise, so you advise me, David trying to advise me all the time. Oh, this is not needed. So when you tell me do this X, Y, Z, and I go off the cuff. Let's assume that that's the case. So you sitting in David's seat, then I guess you're just responding to it. Like, what happens when I say this?

SPEAKER_04 1:34:18

Yeah, sometimes well, sometimes you you are asked to help to respond. You know, you have to create, you create the narrative with the person because the person, if if that person is so hands-on, they're not going to be like leaving you to come up. They may say, Okay, Lisa, draft something for me. This is these are the points I want to put across. And I want it back in 10 minutes. Because they ain't giving you two days. I want it back in 10 minutes, right? Or they call in you on the phone while you're in the middle of the massy stores. So, so so this just happens, you know. I ain't calling no names. Me neither. Right? Um, um, send me back something now, you know? And you do something, you send it back. They may go with it, they may put in a little two their two cents as well. They may say, no, that's crap. I don't know, you the one listening to me.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:11

You know what I mean?

unknown 1:35:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:13

But yeah, that that is how this in this environment, that is how it's going down.

Corie 1:35:18

I understand. So I guess it's just a hard lag in and when the next request comes.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:21

Yeah, and and again, I go back to the personality of that individual. You know, is it is that their style? Is that their style?

Corie 1:35:30

Yeah, and you gotta make the adjustments as you go because the individuals change in those positions. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:35

And and especially when you you're dealing too with someone like a prime minister, they I mean, you might be advisor public engagement, but then they have their whole cabinet. They have their you are not the only person who knows there there are many voices that are coming to that person's um attention as well that have to be considered.

Corie 1:35:57

Makes sense. Makes sense. Now I did say in the beginning, philanthropy,

Reputation, Philanthropy, And Disability Inclusion

Corie 1:36:00

right? So at some point we had to get to the Dunk Syndrome Family Network, right? Right. Uh because Glenn go kill me if I was a word. But I did want to ask, where in this timeline did you go off and launch your own events business?

SPEAKER_04 1:36:15

I had launched my business um after I left HCL. Okay, okay. Um, so when the Prime Minister called me, my business was operating. But when I went to work for her, I shut it down because I didn't want any conflict of interest. Oh. So I shut it down and we did not operate during those four four years. Because I I joined um in 2011. I understand.

Corie 1:36:40

You see, you're better than me, though, because I would I would expand a lot in them four years. Massive expansion of my business.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:52

I just want to and uh with you. I get you, but I shut it down because I make sense. I I thought of life after.

Corie 1:37:01

Understood, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:02

You know, and and one thing that is extremely important to me is my reputation. It's the only thing I have, as they say is the only thing you'll go to your grave with, right?

Corie 1:37:13

Lisa, let me tell you this. Your reputation is good. If anybody, I I I listen, I try to do as much digging as I could. Your reputation is good, people. The first response I get when I say we have Lisa on, we'll need to cover this. It's like, nah, Lisa, good. Nobody gave me no information. Lisa good, man, you'll be fine. But I don't want to talk about Dun Syndrome Family Network, your involvement in it, and so on. How did that start?

SPEAKER_04 1:37:37

Oh, wow. Hmm. Okay, that's another sigh. Yeah, it is, it is, but um, not a sigh. It's not a sigh, it's not a sigh. Um, well, Glenn and I were in a relationship, and um, Glenn, of course, has a son who has Down syndrome. Tyrese. And uh, yes, Tyrese was very small at the time. He probably was about six when I met Glenn. And um, you know, we it was a it it it was something that Glenn was struggling with. And I hope he uh is okay with me saying that because he says it now, you know, and um finding, you know, a way to deal with um the things that he was going through was really um challenging for him. And so we kind of put our heads together and did a little bit of research about, you know, um Down syndrome and and opportunities and different things that were available. And we um found out about organizations in the United States and abroad, and uh Glenn went off to his first conference, which I'm sure he mentioned and he spoke about, and he realized that look, this is not uh um something that is uh is has to be uh a terrible outcome for his son, that there are things that can be done. And so I think all of that emotion and and so on, he um put into um starting the Down syndrome family network. And I was in the background, you know, and I I believed in in it as well, and I thought it would be something, you know, that would go on not just to benefit Tyrese, but definitely to benefit the children of Trinidad and Tobago.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:26

Oh, true.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:26

And so I supported it. And um, even though we are not together in a relationship, um, we we continue to be friends and uh I continue to work with the network, you know, in in I got a message from him recently about the conference.

Corie 1:39:44

And it I can't help but think with all the different things you're talking about in terms of your experience with getting sponsorship, putting together events that you were at the heart of coming up with the conference and the work that goes into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:55

Well, um, I am the event manager for the Down Syndrome Family Network. Um, I mean, it's just natural, you know, that that, you know, because Glenn, too, he had a vision for it and he really wanted, you know, it to be operated at to operate at a certain level. Yeah. You know, and we were shadowing the NDSC in the United States and and the NDSS and and so on. And these are huge organizations with lots of money, you know, lots of grants and different things. And here we are in Trinidad, and you know, we starting off this thing, we have no money, and you know, we just trying to, we still trying to put it out there. Of course. And of course, at the time I was working with the office of the Prime Minister, and you know, I did have um, you know, the the heir of the Prime Minister as well with regards to certain things. And, you know, so we started the conversation about um the UN Um Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. And we also um discussed, you know, the Down syndrome organization um support through the Ministry of Social Development and so on, which was which was a fit because these were things that the country really needed to focus on. I mean, there are many other NGOs that the Ministry of Social Development does support as well. And um they the Prime Minister went on to ratify the UN CRPD um under her first term in office. And she does have, you know, a very um committed, she is very committed to children and ch especially children, vulnerable children and children with disabilities. Um so it was natural for her to lend that support to um to establish in that. And so, you know, we were able to do some work at that point in time to build the organization, and it has just continued on because it's not really party specific, you know. Of course, of course, yeah. It is a national agenda.

Corie 1:41:57

Yeah, I get the sense when I hear any anybody talk on behalf of Down syndrome family network that, well, first, and Glenn helped me to understand this why it's broader than Down syndrome and it's about disabilities. Yeah, but especially when I hear you talk, because something I hear you say a lot, which which stood out was the idea of assuming competence. So don't talking to people like myself in terms of what we see when we see somebody with a disability. You want to talk about that?

SPEAKER_04 1:42:19

Yeah, um, I think we all have, you know, we all have stereotypes, um, and we all have um biases, you know. So someone once said that to me, you know, and I was like, no, I don't. And then I thought about it. And you know, we grew up with it unconsciously that that we have these, you know, our own hair blind spots for sure. Blind spots, right? And um I think you know, we were never taught with persons with disabilities to really look at what they can do. We were always taught to be to treat them special. And again, Glenn would hates that word special. So, you know, w they're individuals, they they have different personalities, um, they do things differently, maybe they take a little extra time. Um, and maybe we need to provide the environment for them to be able to do what the best that they can do. And I think that's where we feel. Um, so that first of all, educate any parents was the number one priority. It still is the number one because if the parent who is the first advocate for their child does not believe that their child can do things.

Corie 1:43:34

Yeah, I guess it can't go much further, don't you? Then it can't go much further.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:36

How are you gonna convince the teacher or the or your neighbor or or the friends to come and play with your child? No, you have to believe it. Yes. Um, so we've missed a generation, I think, of of people in that those young persons, well, or those young adults who are like in their 30s and 40s now have not been exposed to this kind of thinking. And neither were their parents. They were, you know, they were the ones who we looked after, we took care of, we kept them home because we didn't want to feel shame. You know, um people didn't understand them, so we don't want to, you know, we want to protect them. Um and so therefore they it was very limited in in what they were exposed to, and so therefore, now they are limited in what they can do. Right? But this generation of young people that come in up here.

Corie 1:44:28

Different ballgame, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:44:29

Different ballgame. Um, you know, those who are say between zero and twenty now, they have because the Down Syndrome Network, believe it or not, is 15 years old already. Oh wow. So they now have been exposed. They are now being told through the network and through lots of you know, the diversity, equity, inclusion is global now. So everybody's singing the song about, you know, about inclusion. And so therefore, they have a lot more available to them. We are still in Trinidad uh very far behind where we should be with regards to, you know, special education and and inclusive education and even work opportunities, mentorship programs, occupational therapy and training and life skills and stuff. But that is really the work of the network to keep on pushing for those things and getting the parents to push and the companies to push because it's a it's a cultural change. It's an it's a it's a it's not just you know, just for these little books the board.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:37

So, you know, that that is what the conference seeks to do, to really provide a platform on that UN World Down syndrome day to do that. And then, of course, through other activities like next week, we have our Fashion with Us show where um our self-advocates take to the catwalk along with all the top models in Trinidad and Tobago. Um, you know, it's it's it's choreographed by Richard Young. We have 14 designers from mailing, Claudia Pegas, Heather Jones, E. Cliff, all of them showing. And they get out there and really change people's perceptions of or stereotypes of what persons with Down syndrome look like, what they sound like, what they act like.

Corie 1:46:25

Yeah, what they're capable of doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:26

What they're capable of doing.

Corie 1:46:27

Well, congrats on it and thanks for your advocacy on it. And I mean, you can't expect being in a fashion event, right? It's me and David at the end of the day, we can go 15, right? But we definitely come into the conference. It's something that I want to want to see and want to be a part of. Yeah. But I want to thank you too lista. Thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you for coming here today and taking the time. I appreciate it. And at least we know now when we're doing this podcast, it's the experiment. Thank you very much, Lisa. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:46:54

Thank you.

Corie 1:46:55

I appreciate it. Thank you.